As the Goth turns..

[manny at garfieldartworks.com]

Sorry, but I have to disagree somewhat.

First of all, most of the people commenting on here were not in the 80s
scene because they were not old enough. Once again, as someone who grew up
in high school and college during the 80s, as well as the person who
presented the first national-act concert specifically promoted as 'gothic'
(in 1988, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, and I hope you won't
try to argue again), I think I can speak authoritatively here.

Of course in the 80s there was nuclear angst, but that was dealt with in
many ways. Some went dark and brooding, but just as many others went
light-hearted and synthpoppy. I have plenty of
records from both to tell the tale.

The period in which this list was founded and which the people who are
posting grew in was not the 80s, but the 90s 'neogoth' period. There was
no nuclear angst because the Soviet Union had collapsed. If you remember,
at first the scene was all about gothrock and ethereal (transitioning
from the late 80s darkrock vibe), then it became all about industrial and
finally about futurepop.

Sure, the grunge and Lollapalooza effect was very important - the
mainstreaming of alternative culture (and the Clinton-era prosperity which
allowed everyone to spend so much money - remember that most of you are on
the 2nd half of Gen-X, and during this period the purchasing power of that
generation was realized) produced 'gateway bands' like NIN and Manson
which fed into the underground the same way mainstreamed punkers like
Green Day did.

Also, there's one thing which you folks do not like to openly acknowledge
and that is the influence of rave culture. With alternative culture going
mainstream, rave was still one of the undergrounds
misunderstood in the public eye (along with stuff like drum 'n bass, IDM
and breakcore, which I believe are the last original musics that the West
will ever produce) and I can guarantee you that some young teens who raved
in mid-90s later became goths, and that is why by the second half of the
90s, the goth clubs were mostly actually sounding like pounding trancey
techno raves. (futurepop and the like)

So, in that late 90s period, alternative culture took one step further and
not only became mainstream but totally commodified, like Brian noted.
Which means that now, younger Gen-Y kids don't have to be creative at all
- they have their subcultures (and the strictures of creativity within
each) completely designed for them, in stores, in the media, and on the
Internet. The only thing they can do is shatter these subcultures into
ever more tiny subcultures, recombining and dissecting them in a
postmodern cutup style. The steampunk/neo-cabaret movement is good
evidence of that. As is the crazy patchwork of stuff on sites like
Youtube.

Western culture itself is pretty much at an impasse and the decline of
this music reflects it, We went through the periods of Romanticism,
Modernism and Post-Modernism (all of which are reflected in various
strains of the goth-industrial scene, as well) and came out the other side
at Nakayama's "End of History". But it's not really the End of History,
just the end of the West's history as it proceeds towards creative death.

Four civilizations (mainly: China, India, Islam, and Latin) will rise,
hybridize with the West where appropriate, and battle for ascendancy with
an outcome no one can reasonably predict. Right now the fringe of
creativity lies in the combination and syncretization of cultures. You
know how combinations of black music and European music basically created
enduring and incredible American art forms from blues and jazz to country
and rock and rap, etc?
Well, in the future there will be many more developments across all these
cultures (you're already
seeing it with Desi, rai, Latin rock, etc) and that will be where the
action and creativity is.

The interest in ethnic cultures already seem to confirm this. People get
excited about gypsy Balkan bands and Tuvan throat singers. People who
would never see an avantgarde jazz show jump at the chance as soon as it's
marketed from a standpoint of ethnicity (like incorporating Asian or
African or Indian influences, etc). Goth chicks are becoming bellydancers,
are they not?

And yes, Brian was right about live music. It will rise in value once
again as digital music loses it value and becomes disposable sounding and
worthless. But the live experience will hopefully not just bring
cookiecutter emo bands and adult folkpop to the fore - it will also
hopefully bring these
new and interesting hybrids to live audiences, so even as the world is
getting smaller, more people can interconnect through shared live music
experiences, etc. I look forward to that.

Peace out!