the proper Show Chronology re: Goth/industrial

[manny at telerama.com]

Hey dummies:
If this is in a 'FAQ' somewhere, then it's WRONG.

The Of A Mesh show (which was MY idea and MY promotions - Norm just facilitated
it by hooking me up with his acquaintance at AB Concerts, a girl named Sarah)
happened BEFORE Norm did *any* shows at all.

Norm's shows FOLLOWED AFTER my shows.

Here is the chronology:

In summer 1987 I did three industrial/experimental shows on the CMU Campus.
The first two were Dog as Master and Anschluss.
The  last one was that legendary show with the Philly industrial band Sink
Manhattan (where 'sparks flew').

Then in fall/winter 1987 I did some shows at the Squirrel Hill American Legion.
Including industrial band from Toronto, Varoshi Fame.

Then in winter 1988 I did Of A Mesh at CMU Skibo Ballroom.

In spring 1988, when the weather was warmer, Norm did Savage Republic/For
Against outside on the cut. THAT was his first production, SEVERAL MONTHS
after the Of a Mesh show.

In summer 1988, I did the three industrial/experimental shows at the Wightman
School, including Hunting Lodge and Algebra Suicide etc.

In fall 1988, I did a dozen or so shows at the Foundry, and Norm did some too.
He did Volcano Suns for example. Sink Manhattan came back then.

Then in Winter 1989, he did Winterfest with Naked Raygun/Live Skull/Bitch Magnet
in the Skibo Ballroom. That show was even bigger than the Of A Mesh
show, there may have been 500 people.

Then from March 1989 to August 1989 while I ran the Sonic Temple with Brian and
Mark, Norm did a bunch of dark rock shows there. Then in 1990 he did a bunch of
dark rock shows at the Upstage and Metropol. He also did Crime & the City
Solution at the Banana.

Then Norm left town halfway through the early Upstage era and passed on his
bookings to Greg Panchisin, who continued to do shows at the Upstage until it
stopped doing shows in 1992, and also he did shows at Metropol. He changed
Norm's 'Stormfront Productions' name to his own 'MB Bookings'. Then he went
looneytunes and disappeared in the middle of booking a tour for Prisonshake.

Rapier, you were around for almost all of this activity. So get it straight
in your head! I came first, a year before Norm did anything show-wise.

And as far as the goth scene 'springing from my loins' YES THAT WAS THE POINT.
300 (or more) people DID come out of NOWHERE from every possible conceivable
angle of the underground. Punks, new wavers, proto-indies, dress in black types
who looked like 'goths' but did not yet identify as being 'goths' per se, The
entire Pittsburgh underground music scene was basically there. Rapier was
there, he can tell you. But the point is yes of course there was a 'scene'
there but it was made of disparate people from the underground. Other than very
small gatherings that had no publicity or pull in the larger underground
whatsoever, this was the first time hundreds of people had gathered under the
banner of something specifically promoted as 'goth'.

Yes of course as we said, the Garden DID EXIST before that point but they had
only switched their sound from postpunk to 'goth' less than a year earlier and
had hardly been exposed to any audiences during that time. I don't remember how
many shows they played as their 'goth' sound before the Of A Mesh show, but it
wasn't many. The music from their 'goth' tape had been playing on WRCT for
months, giving us part of the hype we needed to push the show.

-MT

> On 3/20/06, Kelly Ashkettle <kellyashkettle at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Isn't this in the FAQ yet?
> >
> >   Manny: I started the Pittsburgh goth scene in 1988 with my Of a Mesh show
> that drew over 300 people.
> >
> > Rapier: Norm Veenstra was doing bigger shows than that before then.
>
> Actually, I'm pretty sure that isn't true. Its just demonstrable that
> there is no way he could have gotten 300 people to a goth show if
> there wasn't already a 'goth' scene. Its not like The Garden sprang
> fully formed from Manny's loins the night of that show. Or maybe it
> was like that! My God! MANNY IS THE CREATOR!
>
> However, all bullshit aside, that was a damn fine show - though I
> still think Slave Cave was better than Of A Mesh. Goth cover's of Neil
> Young songs are just wonderful.
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