Of A Mesh is on Soundclick!

[manny at telerama.com]

Quoting "Michael J. Salo" <salo at rcn.com>:

Of course the music *existed*.
But there was no 'scene' here for it, specifically.
i.e. nobody congregated in groups, either for shows or dance nights, under the
term 'goth' or even 'dark rock'.
This is clear, no matter how much you try to resist the facts.
The Swans show at the Banana in 1984 or so was a PUNK show. No matter how you
slice it.

Other than the Plastic Btls (incl Vinnie Curtis, later of Half Life, and now of
Rocketsled) there was NOT any activity labeled as 'industrial' really before I
was aware and active. Btls were specifically into stuff like TG and Cab Volt I
think.

A girl on myspace claims the band SDI (precusors to the Nine) which started in
1985 were 'goth' but they were not known as goth or darkrock at the time, they
were clearly considered New Wave (e.g. like bands like the Cardboards earlier
or the Affordable Floors later). You would hear them (or hear about them) on
WPTS within the context of local new wave/synthpop shows. Later, The Nine were
basically an early part of the goth scene but I had already done that 1988 show
by then. The Nine's existence came after the Garden.

In 1986, I put out my first release, a cassette compilation of local
experimental/electronic music called OUTWARD INWARD. I very much doubt I missed
anybody because I was at WRCT at the time and everyone we played was on the
comp. Almost all the groups on that were either synthpop/new wave or doing some
kind of post-Tangerine Dream space music-new agey vibe. The only group on it
that was 'industrial' was Foetal Pain, who were people at the radio station,
influenced by Whitehouse/Blackhouse/TG and such.

The first band to clearly known and clearly play out as 'industrial' were P.
Children from Carnegie Mellon (I put out a 7" and 10" for them, they also had
an LP and a CD later on on Charnel Music), this was in 1987, followed by such
groups as Hope Organ and Fillet of Feedback and Telecorps and Macronympha. But
all this happened while I was around and i encouraged it.

The first band to identify clearly as 'goth' were The Garden. There is no
question about this. They started around 1984-85 as more of a postpunk group
(stemming out of earlier postpunks Ground Zero), and didn't really start to
sound 'goth' (ie 4AD esque) until 1987 or so. Yes, their first 'tape' is way
way goth but that was done in 1987 I think. 1987 is not 'before my era'
remember - I put out my first release in 1986 and put on my first show on June
16, 1987. The recordings they did before then (which maybe don't exist anymore,
but they did exist on 'cart' at the station) were kind of brittle-think
postpunk, and they're NOT on that comp CD you have. Their switch to a goth
sound, in fact, was a big part of what prompted me to organize the Jan 1988
show. We had a local band that was good at it, a band from Ohio, and an NYC
band that people were excited about at the station, so I thought we should
create a new scene for the music, and we did!

Also, I remember thinking at the time (1988) that indeed there were NO other
locals like The Garden, and I in fact made a brief attempt to try and form
another goth band in my basement with my roommate (the now long-gone-from-Pgh
Dark Ron Twyman, anyone remember him?) so the Garden would have someone to play
with. Attempts at finding drummers failed, they were all too 'rock' and didn't
understand tribal rhythms or 6/8 etc so we went with a drum machine. We did
some brief recordings under the name Pagan Day (yes, name influenced by Psychic
TV). I have those tapes. But never played live. The proceedings
had a bit of a 'Arabic dark rock' feel to them since at the time I was into
bands like Minimal Compact, Wolfgang Press, and C Cat Trance. Ron was way into
his Nick Cave persona. Some may remember him as briefly in the band Horselover
Fat, which later became Swob. They did a show at the Upstage in 1990 and then I
lost track of Ron after that.

Of course, there is a possibility I could be wrong. But I doubt it.
Best idea would be to talk to Tony and Chris from the Garden. I think they have
the unshakable claim as pgh's first 'goth' band regardless.

> >was there a show promoted as 'goth' before Jan 1988?
> >and while we're at it, were there any shows promoted as 'industrial'
> >(other than
> >locals Plastic Btls, who you never saw) before summer 1987?
>
> I believe you that the term may not have been used on a flyer before
> then.  But as we all know goth & industrial music history both really
> go back to the late 70's/early 80's at latest (even if they called it
> something different at the time).
>
> There must have been 'dark rock' or industrial music activity in Pgh
> before the "Manny era" - and that's what I'd be really curious to
> hear about, in case anybody is old enough to report on it.
>
> According to my Garden compilation CD, the Garden started in
> '85.  And their first tape is way way goth.
>
> Michael J. Salo
> www.strangefortune.com
> The source for strange & exquisite sounds
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