quittin' smoking

[Jeremy David]

No. I don't want to see every little dangerous thing banned. But I
think we can use common sense and say that things that are extremely
dangerous should be at least controlled. We do this with driving.
Driving is very dangerous. It's one of the leading causes of death and
injury. Do I think that it should be banned outright? Of course not.
But I think we're all glad that people are only allowed to drive on
the roads and not through the sidewalks and wantonly fields, and that
they're only allowed to drive at certain speeds and only if they
follow particular rules so that the risk is as minimized as we can
reasonably get it.

And yes, simply walking down the street has a certain danger to it.
Anything *could* happen at any time. But there's a difference between
day to day risk and inhaling chemicals that are known to be deadly.
Cigarette smoke has at least 40 known carcinogens in it. This, I
think, means that it's sufficient risk that it should be controlled in
some way. We have laws to control comparable dangerous chemicals.
You're not allowed to put asbestos in a new building, and old asbestos
gets removed according to certain rules and regulations because it's
dangerous in a very similar way as cigarette smoke. Why does cigarette
smoke get a pass?

I understand that you, like many people, enjoy smoking. Hell, I enjoy
smoking from time to time. But that doesn't mean that I should be
allowed to spray the dangerous smoke from a cigarette anywhere I
please at any time.

On 3/14/06, Mick <mick at freedminds.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> Because simply putting one at risk in a public place, even if no
> actual injury results,
> infringes on one's liberties.
> </end snip>
> If this is your reasoning. Consider this:
> Many things in day to day life do this.
> Do you want to see them all banned as well?
>
> And no, I do not want to get in to a drawn out
> what-is-good-for-you-bad-for-you conversation.
>
>
> --Mick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeremy David" <epistemology at gmail.com>
> To: <pgh-goth-list at listless.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:24 AM
> Subject: Re: quittin' smoking
>
>
> > As a formerly card carrying Libertarian (I still hold many
> > libertarian
> > ideas, but I no longer have the card) I support public smoking
> > bans
> > due to libertarian reasons.
> >
> > If you want to smoke in a private place then please have at it.
> > I have
> > no desire whatsoever to use the power of the state to stop you.
> >
> > But, public places are different. We have all sorts of rules to
> > keep
> > people safe from one another in public places. You can't drive
> > over
> > the speed limit. Even if you don't actually end up hurting
> > anyone,
> > it's still against the law to drive too fast, and with good
> > reason. If
> > you run a restaurant, you have to keep the kitchen clean. Even
> > if no
> > one gets sick, if your kitchen is out of line, you will be
> > punished by
> > the state, and with good reason. Why? Because simply putting
> > one at
> > risk in a public place, even if no actual injury results,
> > infringes on
> > one's liberties. Smoking puts one at risk. And while it's up to
> > a
> > smoker to decide for him or herself if that risk is worth it
> > for him
> > or herself, it's bad civic practice to put other people at that
> > same
> > risk in a public place.
> >
> > If you have a private racetrack, you can drive as fast as you
> > want.
> > Likewise if you have a private room, you can smoke all you
> > want. But I
> > don't think you should be allowed to smoke in public any more
> > than you
> > should be allowed to drag race down Forbes Ave.
> >
> > On 3/14/06, Chris Rapier <rapier1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> See my whole feeling is that if you don't like the smoke you
> >> don't
> >> have to go there. Everyone makes choices in life and its
> >> really a
> >> matter of what option is most important to you. If going to a
> >> club or
> >> a bar that has smoking is more important than not being around
> >> smoke
> >> then thats your choice. Obviously, this is just as true for
> >> smokers.
> >> If going to a non-smoking place is more imporatnt to you than
> >> having a
> >> smoke then that is their choice. Each group respects the
> >> others
> >> boundaries and behaves themselves when they made the choice to
> >> go
> >> either type of location.
> >>
> >> Of course, no one really wants to allow that. I mean, why
> >> should we
> >> allow adults to engage in legal behaviour around other people
> >> who are
> >> cognizant of the risks and have made the choice to be there?
> >> Why
> >> should we when we can pass a law to criminalise behaviour? I
> >> love the
> >> nanny state! SWADDLE ME BABY!
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/14/06, gwen <gwenix at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > You know, even when smoking I've been all for banning
> >> > indoors smoking
> >> > in the city.  It only takes five minutes to go outside to
> >> > get a
> >> > cigarette, and the smoke isn't contained in a small space at
> >> > that
> >> > point.
> >> >
> >> > Plus, it means I can stay at the clubs later myself -- my
> >> > eyes react
> >> > badly to too much smoke.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > gwen.
> >> > gamergothgeek
> >> >
> >> > On 3/13/06, Sc'Eric (aka darkFIN) <darkfin6012 at yahoo.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > Thx, Gwen (et.al).... you're each one less person giving
> >> > > me nosebleeds,  asthmatic reactions, monovascular rhinitus
> >> > > polyps--and other sinus  infections caused by the immune
> >> > > deficiency resulting when your body is  constantly
> >> > > fighting allergens.  (Yes, that's 3 different  reactions,
> >> > > depending on the tobacco.)  Seriously, keep it  up!!!  You
> >> > > have no idea how much hell you put other people through
> >> > > every time you light up.
> >> > >
> >> > >   I'm just glad Manny provides a smoke-free venue to see
> >> > > shows or the  only reason I'd have to drive to Pgh is to
> >> > > spend an entire paycheck at  Eide's. =)
> >> > >
> >> > >   ~sc'eric
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