This isn't over re Jeremy David

Wed Mar 1 23:53:52 EST 2006

> Nice underhanded snide remark, Kelly.

  Actually, when I wrote "it seems unlike [Manny] to promise a guarantee to a 
Pittsburgh band, even one that is signed to an international record 
label and has fans across the country (like me) waiting on pins and 
needles for their new album to finally be released," I didn't mean it snidely at all.

  It's not generally common practice to promise a guarantee to a local band, even one with national distribution. Since local bands live in the town where the show is happening and they presumably don't have travel expenses, it makes more sense to offer them a cut of the door as an incentive to help get the word out and get more people to the show. If they really have a good following, it should be reflected in the attendance, and therefore their pay.

  In a case like TSN's, where one band member was living out of town and their draw had been demonstrated to the point where it could be reasonably expected that at least 20 people would come just to see them no matter where they were playing, it seems reasonable for them to request a small guarantee to cover the out of town member's gas expenses, but the decision of whether to make or grant such a request would have been a matter for Manny and Alexx to agree upon before the show. 

  The bottom line is that whatever agreement is made needs to be honored. If the promoter didn't honor the agreement made with the band's spokesperson, then the band has a right to be upset. If the other band members misunderstood the agreement (like they thought 50% referred to 50% of the gross instead of 50% of the profit), or just didn't like its results (like only 10 people showed up, so 50% meant $25), then that's an issue between the band members and their spokesperson. 

  > How many 'Pittsburgh' bands have you provided 'guarantees' for?
> (That is, a guaranteed amount promised *before* the fact, not an amount paid
> after the show happened to be a success and you had some money to pay).

  Some. I remember that when I asked Mindless Faith to open for Cubanate and DJ? Acucrack in May of 1998, I gave them a guarantee of $60 plus a percentage...something like 15% after 75 people paid. 

  I generally tried to pay local bands around $50, regional bands around $100, and most national, touring bands around $300-$600, depending on their draw. The particular deals I made varied according to the situation and what the band was bringing to the table, though. 

  The first time I booked ThouShaltNot was in May of 2000, when all the members were still living in Ohio and they were just starting to play out of town shows. I gave them a guarantee of $100 and let them sleep on my living room floor. 

  Incidentally, none of them tried to kill me in my sleep and were charming houseguests, so I let Alexx crash in my living room again when he came out to see my Faith and the Muse in July. Jeremy, who was in the opening band, was also crashing in my living room, and that's when Alexx and Jeremy first met and jammed together.

  Good thing I have these websites to help me remember all this stuff:
  http://www.gothbandphotos.com/past/
  http://www.thoushalt.net/faq.shtml

  --Kelly

manny at telerama.com wrote:  Quoting Kelly Ashkettle :

Nice underhanded snide remark, Kelly.
How many 'Pittsburgh' bands have you provided 'guarantees' for?
(That is, a guaranteed amount promised *before* the fact, not an amount paid
after the show happened to be a success and you had some money to pay).
TSN sell a couple thousand copies of their records, not tens of thousands.
National touring bands that sell a sparse amount like that ALSO play here for
the door for me on a constant basis, unless they have a track record.
So there is nothing different or exceptional about TSN's situation.

As far as me, bands, whether local OR national, can get guarantees if they have
a specific amount of demonstrated, historical draw. I am scrupulously fair to
people but I am not going to go out on a limb unless it is something that I
seriously like (such as, say, Mum, which was a risk). TSN never demonstrated an
overwhelming draw of their own to me outside of the safe Laga/Upstage cocoon.
One cannot assume they will have the same draw on Penn Avenue
or wherever else, as they do at Laga/Upstage.

If this is Jeremy from Thou Shalt Not, I am severely disappointed in him, at
least based on the good terms (as far as I can tell) that Alex and I parted on
before he left town, Hell, I even sat behind those guys at a screening of 'The
Aristocrats' last year, and as I recall, Jeremy was there, and he didn't say
anything. If he has remained here only to spread lies and innuendo because he
is now bitter about whatever has befallen him, he has another thing coming.

I don't remember exactly when I had Thou Shalt Not play. But since a lot of the
time I actually had Alex Reed play (and not TSN), the number of times TSN
appeared under my auspices is probably no more than two.

If Jeremy David can prove that I 'gave him the shaft' (in other words, paid him
an inordinately small amount in proportion to the facts of the show) both times
TSN played for me, I would be happy to concede that I am in the wrong. With his
paucity of offered information, I kind of doubt I am wrong, though. Delineate
WHOM you played with, HOW MANY people showed up and WHAT you got paid.

Let's see what he has to say, if anything, or whether he slinks back into his
little resentful hideyhole.

This isn't over.

-MT

> I am sure that if Jeremy David Long ever actually wants to try to conceal his
> identity, he will be smart enough to do more than simply leave off his last
> name.
>
> But now that this has been dragged out into the open, I'm curious to hear
> the story: what did ThouShaltNot think that Manny promised them that he did
> not deliver? It seems unlike him to promise a guarantee to a Pittsburgh
> band, even one that is signed to an international record label and has fans
> across the country (like me) waiting on pins and needles for their new album
> to finally be released.
>
> --KellyA
>
>
> manny at telerama.com wrote:
> Quoting Jeremy David :
>
> well, OK, it doesn't sound like he's in Bottom Feeder.
> I don't think they could fit their stuff into a station wagon :)
>
> I can't guess. It'd be fun to know. I'm sure Jeremy doesn't want to reveal
> who he played with, because then he'd no longer have the upper hand peddling
> his
> lies, look at who is trying to call me a liar.
>
> thanx Chris
>
> > On 2/22/06, Christopher tm wrote:
> >
> > > I have it on reasonably good authority that Manny
> > > pays his artists. I do not know whether this is true
> > > 100% of the time, but I have never
> > > heard of Manny reneging on any pre-agreed
> > > amounts/percentages.
> >
> > Well, he's failed to pay me more than once. It's up to you whether you
> > consider me to be good authority.
> >
> > I didn't spend more than a decade learning to play two instruments and
> > sing, and then haul my ass across the country and back in a station
> > wagon so that self-righteous little liars can make money off of my
> > time effort and hard work.
> >
> > I'm sorry if I seem a little over-zealous about this issue, but
> > promotors like Manny Thiner are the reason why many bands that you
> > might actually appreciate don't want to go touring, and that pisses me
> > off.
> >
> > - Jeremy
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