triphop, old-school goth-rock, IDM, noise, power-tronics, etc....

[Jeremy David]

On 2/23/06, Kelly Ashkettle <kellyashkettle at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ah. Yes, it makes sense to want a guarantee if Foo was performing with you
> that night, since he would have had to drive from Cleveland.

>From Ohio, yes. Actually he was a little farther away than Cleveland,
but we both get the point. He had a long drive to get here and had to
call off his day job, which is very important to him, so we asked for
our costs to be recouped in order to do the show. Otherwise we would
have been happy to just play the show and not worry too much about
getting a large sum of money for it. But instead of our costs being
recouped, he actually took money from some of the people who made the
show possible, and tried to sneak out on paying us at all. All this
from a guy who didn't even bother to show up at the venue to get it
set up, much less make an real effort to let people know about the
show beforehand. He only showed up in time to take money at the door,
and then he cut out as soon as possible. I've played shows in just
about every city in the country, and I've never been treated as shitty
as I have been by Manny Theiner.

If Manny will do this to people he shares a town with and has to deal
with on a regular basis, how does he treat kids who come in from
Mexico and will never see him again?



> Jeremy David <epistemology at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/23/06, Kelly Ashkettle wrote:
> > But now that this has been dragged out into the open, > I'm curious to
> hear the story: what did ThouShaltNot
> > think that Manny promised them that he did
> > not deliver?
>
> He promised money, which he did not pay. He also didn't even show up
> to the venue until a few minutes before the show started. After the
> show he tried to leave without even talking to us, but someone managed
> to track him down as he was trying to sneak away. He then found it in
> his heart to give us about ten or twenty bucks before he ran off,
> which was not even enough to cover gas money, and certainly less than
> he promised. We can afford a couple bumps in the road like this, but
> how many small bands who are trying to get started can't?
>
> When we got to the venue at the agreed-upon time, Manny wasn't even
> there, the venue was locked, and nothing was set-up for a show. We had
> to wait around in the street until the venue manager got there, and
> then we had to get the entire venue ready ourselves. Our drummer's
> wife even helped out. Then, a few minutes before the show, Manny shows
> up and charges our drummer's wife admission to the show. Now that's
> nerve: charging a woman for doing your job for you. How many hard
> working bands won't play another show in Pittsburgh because they don't
> want to deal with this kind of a Manny Theiner rip-off a second time?
>
> I really like touring, and I love playing shows. What I don't like is
> getting together with people and discussing a possible show or tour,
> and hearing someone mention, "Well, what if this promoter stiffs us
> again? Can we afford to deal with that?" Once this happens too many
> times, you can't rely on promoters anymore at all. Some bands are well
> established enough and experienced enough to handle this kind of scam.
> But how many small bands never really got a chance to get started
> because of behaviour like Manny's?
>
> I know that Manny will have a very well thought out and considerate
> response to what I wrote. I just hope that having to read an account
> of his own behavior will make him consider acting more justly in the
> future, so that more people don't get screwed over. I'm sure that
> Manny will demand that I prove all this, which I can't. This is an
> e-mail list. There's no way for me to offer proof of any kind on an
> e-mail list other than my own words. Manny knows it's true, though. I
> hope that Manny really thinks about it.
>
> Manny's favorite excuse is that it's not his fault that he can't pay
> bands sometimes, because *you* don't come to his shows, and because
> *you* don't know enough about this month's obscure hip band. It's
> actually *your* fault that he can't be responsible. It's every one's
> fault but Manny's! That's funny, because there are plenty of promoters
> who make sure that houses are full, in this town and in many others,
> for bands that no one has ever heard of. I know of one who got Laga
> packed for the Dresden Dolls before anybody had ever heard of them. I
> know of more who have had venues packed for bands that are long
> forgotten. And there are plenty of promoters who fulfil all financial
> and other obligations to venues and bands, even if enough fans don't
> happen to show up. Why do they do it? Because it's the right thing to
> do, and I appreciate them immensely for it, because they make it
> possible for good bands to continue playing shows.
>
> Manny knows a whole lot about the history of popular music, and I do
> believe that he actually cares about in it. It's saddening that his
> lack of responsibility and ethics holds him back from being really
> productive. I know that he's already been banned from WRCT for theft.
> I believe, although I am not sure, and feel free to correct me if I'm
> wrong, that he's also been banned from a venue or two for similar
> reasons, which is why he has to hold his shows at a tiny art gallery
> that is not acoustically adequate for a musical performance. That's a
> shame, because he does have a lot to contribute if he could only get
> his act together, which I sincerely hope that he does, and I believe
> that he can do it. He's a smart guy and a capable guy when he wants to
> be. But I won't believe that he has actually become a reliable person
> until I see it for myself.
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