Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt

[manny at telerama.com]

> >with way goth has mass appeal nowadays in every facet of youth culture
> >i am not surprised you would try to defend the merit of mass appeal.
> Don't put words in my mouth. The "mass appeal" of Goth doesn't really 
> mean much to me one way or the other. 
I am just conjecturing here based on the topic of this list, but
if you go to any goth-related concert that pulls 1500+ people in
*Pittsburgh*, then it matters, whether you would like to admit it or not.
Again, the Juliana Theory example, since it's so readily presentable,
seems like a good barometer.

 Is it inconceivable that just perhaps there could be 
> several thousand people who enjoy a particular band? 
Several thousand people total worldwide, of course. Several thousand
people in one given city/market? Of course it depends on the size of the
city, but the smaller the market, the more it is the result of consumer
marketing, not any higher quality in music.

Does every musical 
> act have to be so esoteric they limit their own audience? 
No but the definition of esoteric is self-limiting audiencewise. So if
you like esoteric music, then you like music which limits its audience
but is usually subject to little or no consumerist manipulation.
If you like music with mass appeal, then you like music which doesn't
limit its audience and as a result is subject to such manipulation.
You yourself are the subject of such manipulation. Everyone who watches
any TV, reads any major mags, listens to any formatted radio, or even
exists in an average high school environment, is subject to it. For
example if you pay attention to mass media, no matter how much you might
like to, you can't totally either hate or block out Madonna, because her
image and music has been inculcated into you, which at some point will
induce a favorable response. Even if you never buy one of her records,
eventually you will automatically smile when a Madonna song comes on
in the background somewhere. At which point the industry will have done
its job. Contrary to the old adage, familiarity does
not breed contempt as much as it breeds acceptance via conditioning.

And if they 
> find they do have popular appeal, should they then, in your world, change 
> their style so they alienate just enough people to return to the "proper" 
> size venues? Isn't that just as artificial?
no but few bands with esoteric styles (by definition ) would ever find
popular appeal in the first place. what usually happens is that an
*imitator* (see Nine Inch Nails, or Blink 182) finds that success instead
of the originator by subjecting itself to the marketing tactics. 
 there are *very few* truly esoteric bands that have ever made it through
to mass appeal with credibility and artistic integrity intact (only a
handful). Most esoteric bands with longevity don't have mass appeal per
se, but become cult legends instead, with respectable acclaim worlwide but
withouh breaking through to a mass audience.

> Call me crazy, but when I create something, I'm jazzed if people like it. 
> Whether that's ten people or ten thousand, that's still great. Once I put 
> something out into the world, I can't limit how many people can 
> experience it. Yeah, a band can put out only 500 CDs, but they can't stop 
> people from sharing their copies and telling friends. You can limit how 
> many tickets you can sell to a gig, but not how many people actually want 
> to buy them. Is it some kind of crime for a band to play a 2,000-seat 
> venue? 
No of course it is not a crime, but the chances of it being artistically
valid dimnish in proportion to the amount of marketing manipulation it
takes to draw those people to the table.
You are blinded by a possible fan-girl perspective.
 I'm not saying that any band that draws 2,000 automatically sucks.
 I'm saying that the chances (i.e. probability) of such a band being
artistically valid or without commercial marketing taint drastically
decreases (especially with regards to any relation they would have with
a major label).